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 John Madagascar Quinn (1835-1913)
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| Jo Newman |
Posted on 26/08/2007 09:22
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 New Member  Posts: 14 Joined: 26/08/2007 |
This man was stationed at Tarbert on HMS Valiant from 30th Sept 1869 until he retired from HM CG service on health grounds (Lopheus) on 31st August 1874. He was originally from Hampshire and had served in the Royal Navy since October 1859. I know that his family was with him in Ireland at some point as a daughter was born in Galway in 1873. Does anyone know how I can find out more about his service, other than his record which I've already found at the National Archives? I'd also like to find out a bit more about the lives of the families, e.g. where they might have lived, how births were registered, etc. Grateful for any help! Jo |
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| crimea1854 |
Posted on 26/08/2007 13:10
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 Administrator  Posts: 906 Joined: 09/07/2007 |
Hi Jo I'm intrigued; just out of idle curosity I looked on the NA web site, and found John M Quinn in ADM188/63. What sparked my interest was that his place of birth was given as 'At Sea'. Now would that be off Madagascar, hence the rather unusual name? Can you perhaps throw any light on this? It could also help if you gave a brief outline of his naval career before entering the CG service. Regards Martin |
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| Jo Newman |
Posted on 26/08/2007 16:14
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New Member Posts: 14 Joined: 26/08/2007 |
Hi Martin I've got a web site for my family tree - click http://www.users....gascar.htm for JMQ's page. Everything I've found out to date is there. As for his name and ocean of birth - I'm puzzled and intrigued too! For all I know, he might have been born on the Isle of Wight ferry! My best guestimate is that his father, Daniel, was serving on HMS Madagascar. The ship was in Valetta, Malta in October 1834 and arrived back in port in November 1834. JMQ was born in August 1835 - approx 9 months later. This is all supposition as I haven't had time to hit Kew yet to search for the Madagascar's muster lists to see if Daniel was on it. I live in Edinburgh so it's not exactly on my doorstep! I also haven't been able to find Daniel's record via Documents Online, although an occupation given as 'Seaman' doesn't necessarily mean he was in the Royal Navy. I'm open to any other suggestions and lines of research. Jo |
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| crimea1854 |
Posted on 27/08/2007 07:21
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Administrator Posts: 906 Joined: 09/07/2007 |
Hi Jo I did visited your excellent site and just a couple of comments. Re you question mark against LM, this is the rate 'Landsman' and was applied to those entering the navy for the first time without any sea experience; basically only good enough to stand on deck and pull on a rope when told too! You may already be aware that HMS Odin took part in the Crimea War, where she served in both the Baltic and the Black Sea. I checked the medal roll and JMQ was entitled to both the Baltic medal and the Crimea Medal with Sebastopol clasp. The first appears to have been delivered to Portsmouth on 13/04/57 and the second was delivered on board. Unfortunately, the navy at this time issued medals unnamed, so unless JMQ had his privately engraved, or they are still in the family, it is unlikely that you will ever find them. Turning to Daniel, unless you have a ship he served on, tracking him down may prove difficult. When you get to the NA, you could try Seaman's records in ADM 139, or the Greenwich Hospital records to see if he applied for a pension, but as you say he may have never been in the RN. Kind Regards Martin |
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| Jo Newman |
Posted on 27/08/2007 18:57
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New Member Posts: 14 Joined: 26/08/2007 |
Martin I am stunned - I had no idea that the HMS Odin was involved in the Crimean War and that my ancestor was awarded medals!!! Thank you so much for telling me this. It's given me another line of enquiry and a job to do to find out more! Is there any way that I can get hold of a copy of the medal roll or does it require a trip to Kew? I doubt very much that JMQ would have had his medals engraved as I think the family must have been poor, given some of the addresses they were living in. I also have no idea if they have been handed down through the family. I'm descended from one of his daughters and I guess it's more likely that they would have gone to his eldest son. Thanks also for the information about the LM abbreviation - I will update my site accordingly. Jo |
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| crimea1854 |
Posted on 27/08/2007 19:53
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Administrator Posts: 906 Joined: 09/07/2007 |
Hi Jo If you PM me with your snail-mail address I will send you print outs' of the medal roll - not very exciting but at least something for the file! Out of interest HMS Odin was a side wheel Paddle Frigate launched on the 24th July 1846, armed with 10 32pdrs on her main deck and 2 68pdrs & 4 10pdrs on her upper deck. She was 208ft long and 37' 2'' in beam. If you visit the National Maritime Museum's web site and go to their online drawing catalogue and enter 'Odin 1846' there are a number of illustrations of Odin in action in the Baltic, which can be ordered online - unfortunately you cannot see what you are ordering, so its a little like pot luck! Regards Martin |
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| crimea1854 |
Posted on 08/09/2007 20:18
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Administrator Posts: 906 Joined: 09/07/2007 |
Hi Jo I was at the NA today doing some of my own research and thought I would take the opportunity to see if I could find anything on Daniel Quinn. On the assumption that he was in the merchant navy I consulted the various indexes of Seaman’s Tickets, and there in BT114 I found a Daniel Quinn (ticket no. 20246). Going to the actual registration document in BT 113 provided the following: Born Portsea, 20th September 1809, with a description; first went to sea as a boy in 1823; served 7 years in the Royal Navy (an here I think the note refers to the actual ticket) ‘lost by swamping of boat 11th February 1846’, and what I think is the replacement ticket no. 298.906; interestingly he gives his usual place of residence when not at sea as Lambeth. So knowing Daniel Quinn served in the RN, I did a search of the catalogue. This returned a Daniel Quinn; born Portsea, date of birth 20th September 1815. Now the coincidences were too numerous so I checked ADM 29/67/255, all this returned was ‘Daniel Quinn @ James Martin’. But the Catalogue also gives two CS numbers. CS11,777 gave his date of birth as 20th September 1815, but the first recorded service was in HMS Victory as ‘James Martin’, then another alias is mentioned ‘James Turner’ and finally he is listed as Daniel Quinn, and surprise, surprise the first time he used the name Quinn was aboard HMS Madagascar! CS 11,777 records his service up to 3rd May 1858 when he was invalided ashore. Checking next CS38,905 this lists his prior service, and then goes on to list further service up to 26th Feb 1863. What is interesting is that his date of birth is now given as 20th September 1809. Of the ships listed in CS11,777 is HMS Curacoa, and the date of his service corresponded with the Crimea war, so I checked the medal roll and sure enough there is Daniel, Ships no. 185 Leading Seaman entitled to Crimea, with Sebastopol clasp – now both father and son are serving in the navy during the war. Turning to John Madagascar Quinn, HMS Madagascar was an iron troopship and I cannot help wondering if he was actually born on the ship, because a percentage of troops wives could accompany them on Foreign Service, so was Quinn really the father? Given the number of aliases used by Daniel, and although I could not find him on the Muster list, that does not mean he was not there – so the mystery deepens. I just wish my own family had such an interesting past. While I’m quite happy to PM you the info collected, there is nothing like seeing a copy of the document, but I’m afraid I have not mastered the photocopy facilities at Kew! Kind regards Martin |
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| Jo Newman |
Posted on 14/09/2007 23:04
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New Member Posts: 14 Joined: 26/08/2007 |
Hi Martin Thanks for all of the information. I'm flabbergasted that you should take some of your own valuable time a TNA to look for my stuff! Thank you so much. Sorry for the delay in acknowledging. I've been away for a week with infrequent access to a computer! If you look at my page for JMQ and follow the link to his mother's page, you'll see that her father was called James Martin. As for the rest, I'm completely 'at sea' (pardon the pun) to explain his name changes and the rest. Referring to the 1846 'lost by swamping', and presuming that it means he died, this could tie in with his wife taking up with a Polish man from some time in the 1840s (and who eventually took the surname of Quinn!). Given that I have a copy of the parish record for his marriage to Mary Ann Nicholson Martin in 1830, and that their first child was born in 1833, I think that a date of birth in 1809 is reasonable, rather than 1815. The rest is a mystery and I'm going to have to spend some time reading through what you've found out it to try to make some sense of it. Could all of the queries be down to poor record keeping on behalf of the Royal Naval personnel? Once again, very many thanks for taking so much trouble on my behalf. To be continued ....! Jo |
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| crimea1854 |
Posted on 15/09/2007 00:18
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Administrator Posts: 906 Joined: 09/07/2007 |
Hi Jo I think you should re-read my last post. Quinn did not die in 1846, I think the note refers to him losing his seaman's ticket when his boat was swamped. His later record clearly shows him alive, at least until 1863. If you like I will PM you with the details I extracted at the NA. Regards Martin |
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| Jo Newman |
Posted on 15/09/2007 11:36
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New Member Posts: 14 Joined: 26/08/2007 |
I see what you mean! I was posting at gone 11pm last night after a very long week at a conference! Thanks for the info in the PM. I might have to get the records copied by the TNA as my curiosity is more than piqued. Jo |
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| Jo Newman |
Posted on 21/09/2007 20:42
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New Member Posts: 14 Joined: 26/08/2007 |
I tried and failed miserably to order these records on the TNA site last weekend. Might have another go some time over this weekend. I always find it to be a horrendously complicated process! Jo |
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| crimea1854 |
Posted on 20/01/2008 09:54
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Administrator Posts: 906 Joined: 09/07/2007 |
Hi Jo I don't know if you have had any luck with the NA, and ordering documents online, but I ordered just one page, sent electronically, and it only cost 34p, which I thought was fantastic value for money! Regards Martin |
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| Jo Newman |
Posted on 24/09/2008 12:10
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New Member Posts: 14 Joined: 26/08/2007 |
A bit of an update! With the help of some other people, I have reached the conclusion that a mistake has been made. My Daniel Quinn's CS numbers are 11,777 and 38,905. The CS number 38,985 must belong to somebody else - maybe James Martin. I therefore believe that my ancestor's date of birth was 20th September 1809 (it can't have been 1815 unless he married at the age of 15 in 1830!). If anyone else can shed any light ... Jo |
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