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 John Driscoll of Tramore
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| theoretician |
Posted on 27/03/2008 21:48
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 New Member  Posts: 8 Joined: 27/03/2008 |
Hi - my first post to the forum. I'm trying to track down my great great grandfather, John Driscoll (married to Mary Kilwick). I know he was in Tramore from 1839-1844 when his children were baptised. He is listed as being "in Government Service" on his children's marriage certificates. There is a John Driscoll who died a resident of Tramore aged 62 in 1871 who was a retired coastguard (from Co. Waterford death records). I am trying to find out if this is my relative. Anyone know: Whether a coast guard be described as being in government service? or Would a coast guard stay in the same area for 30+ years? or Does anyone know of any record of a John Driscoll? Looking at the rest of the site it seems that a trip to Kew might answer some of these questions - but I thought I'd chance the forum first. Thanks for any help. |
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| crimea1854 |
Posted on 28/03/2008 08:34
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 Administrator  Posts: 906 Joined: 09/07/2007 |
Hi and welcome to the Forum. While a trip to Kew could be really worthwhile, it is still be possible to find information held at Kew by doing an online search of their main catalogue. If you enter the name, and in the department or series box enter ADM this will provide some of the possible records held. I did this for John Driscoll, and came up with a likely candidate (link below). This document can be ordered online, and when I last did this it only cost 35p, delivered electronically, which I thought was excellent value for money! http://www.nation...ssmethod=0 This particular document is JD's pension application, which would outline his service, to justify payment by the Admiralty of his pension. Regards Martin Edited by crimea1854 on 28/03/2008 08:36 |
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| theoretician |
Posted on 28/03/2008 08:55
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New Member Posts: 8 Joined: 27/03/2008 |
Wow that was quick - thanks for the suggestion, Martin. That does look like the right record and, at those prices, might be worth splashing out on it! I will report back. |
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| theoretician |
Posted on 11/04/2008 16:15
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New Member Posts: 8 Joined: 27/03/2008 |
I have now received the above service record for a John Driscoll (for 35p) but sadly it does not get me further forward as there are no place names mentioned at all. Neither does it rule this John Driscoll out since he is not at sea when my John Driscoll's children would have been conceived. Perhaps some of the experts in the forum can deduce more from the service record than I can - I have attached it. Thanks, Andy
theoretician attached the following image:
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| theoretician |
Posted on 12/04/2008 10:34
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New Member Posts: 8 Joined: 27/03/2008 |
I think perhaps this is not the right person. There is a record on the 1881 census of a John Driscoll in Cornwall born about 1807 who is listed as a Naval Pensioner. |
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| Tony |
Posted on 12/04/2008 11:26
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 Administrator Posts: 136 Joined: 28/04/2007 |
While searching through Census returns for records of Coastguard Pensioners I have copied details of many "Naval Pensioners" who later turned out to be ex Coastguards. Tony |
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| crimea1854 |
Posted on 19/04/2008 09:12
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Administrator Posts: 906 Joined: 09/07/2007 |
Andy In your position my next step would be to consult one of the Ships Description Books for a ship on which JD was known to have served. This should provide details of his place of birth and may take you further forward, or at least rule this man out. I noticed from the service record of the man you have got that he served on HMS Exmouth at the time of the Crimea War. Checking the Baltic Medal roll has confirmed that he was one of the CG men called up for service because of the shortage of seaman during this conflict. I had hoped that the medal roll might indicate where his medal was sent; in similar circumstances it sometimes refers to a particular CG Station, which may have provided the missing information, unfortunately all the roll notes is that it was sent on the 29/4/1857. If it were me I would check or get a copy of his details from Exmouth's Description book. Again this can be done on line, although I suspect it could cost a little more than 35p. Since his Ships No. on Exmouth was only 4, I suspect that there is a separate List of CG men in the Description Book. The Document Ref. is ADM 38/8081. Regards Martin |
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| crimea1854 |
Posted on 03/07/2008 17:56
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Administrator Posts: 906 Joined: 09/07/2007 |
Andy I have checked HMS Exmouth's description book, and as I suspected John Driscoll was on a separate GC list. This showed his period of service being from 21 Nov 1854 until discharged on 29 April 1856. According to this document he was born Queenstown, Cork, was married, 5'-5'' tall, of dark complexion, hazel eyes, black hair, and what really surprised me 51 years old! Hope this is of some help and interest. Regards Martin |
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| theoretician |
Posted on 27/02/2009 10:17
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New Member Posts: 8 Joined: 27/03/2008 |
Thanks very much for this Martin - sorry for the long delay in responding. I have since made some progress: First, John Driscoll, Coastguard in Tramore (died 2 Oct 1871), is confirmed as my great, great grandfather. [I discovered that one of his sons married a second time in England in 1907 and the marriage certificate confirms his father (deceased) as John Driscoll, a retired coastguard.] Second, your findings from HMS Exmouth give the first indication that the John Driscoll we found in the admiralty records is Irish since he was born in Queenstown. This means that we can rule out my concerns that the records might be for the 1881 census John Driscoll (naval pensioner) since that person was born in Cornwall. So the only confusing thing that prevents me wrapping all this up is the age of John Driscoll. His gravestone states that he died aged 62 on 2 Oct 1871 - giving a year of birth in 1808 or 1809. This does not tally with the service record: Aged 20 on 26th July 1825 (he should be 16 or 17) Aged 51 on 21st Nov 1854 (he should be 45 or 46) - this assumes that the age on HMS Exmouth is the age on start of service (could you confirm, Martin?). The fact that no combination of these dates are fully consistent suggest that he or his family may not have known his exact age - or were economical with the truth! Thanks for all your help! Andy |
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| crimea1854 |
Posted on 27/02/2009 16:34
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Administrator Posts: 906 Joined: 09/07/2007 |
Hi Andy First the bad news, the service record you have from the NA is not your ancestor. Now that the ADM 175 records are available online it is possible to track a mans movements. I did this for the man who's service record you have, but he spent his entire career in England, despite coming from Ireland. I did say in my original post he was only a likely candidate. Now for the good news. The same ADM 175 documents have allowed me to trace the career of a John Driscoll using as a starting point Tramore, Waterford in 1839. The first entry for him appears to be from what looks to be S Kibbereen on 5 May 1831. I have tried to find a CG station with this name, but the closesest I can get is Skibbereen CG District in Cork, which covers a number of stations, although I have been unable to find him at any of these. Another possible explanation is this was where he lived prior to entering the CG Service - perhaps Tony can throw some light on the names issue. However, his posting was to Southwold in England, from where he was transferred to Lowestoft on 10 May 1833. On the 31 August 1837 he was again transferred, this time to the Islands of Kane CG Station in Waterford, Ireland (this CG Station later became known as Tramore). He was to remain here until his discharge on 30 June 1865, when he was Superannuated. This does appear to tie in better with the information you had when you posted your first query  On the question of ages, I have found that these should be taken with a large pinch of salt! Regards Martin |
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| theoretician |
Posted on 27/02/2009 18:28
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New Member Posts: 8 Joined: 27/03/2008 |
Hi Martin, Thanks so much for this - what a great forum! The names (and indeed dates) seem much more appropriate for this new John Driscoll. There are a number of other connections that make it look like this is the right person. (1) Skibbereen, Co Cork is very close to Baltimore. This is where the Driscoll clan came from (though I have never had any tangible connection from my relatives to this place). (2) John Driscoll married Mary Kilwick. His wife's surname is very unusual - there are hardly any. The only record of Kilwick's I have ever found are in - you guessed it - Lowestoft, England. I had no reason or justification, until now, to connect them together. This is a breakthrough for me! Thanks so much. Please could you supply the coordinates of the ADM175 document that you have for this person so I can try and obtain it. You've made my day - Andy |
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| crimea1854 |
Posted on 27/02/2009 22:00
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Administrator Posts: 906 Joined: 09/07/2007 |
Hi Andy I'm glad we got there in the end!! On the question of getting copies of the various pages from the ADM 175 series of documents, these can be downloaded for free from the NA, but they are large files and broadband is essential. http://www.nation...=0&j=1 In chronological order: ADM 175/6, pages 637 and 631 of 779 ADM 175/18, page 62 of 454 ADM 175/19, page 71 of 472 ADM 175/20, page 63 of 440 All the best Martin |
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| theoretician |
Posted on 28/02/2009 22:30
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New Member Posts: 8 Joined: 27/03/2008 |
Thanks - I see what you mean about big (1.6GB). One thing that still intrigues me. John Driscoll was superannuated in 1865 so shouldn't there be a pension record somewhere? I would still very much like to find a place of birth if I could. Andy Edited by theoretician on 28/02/2009 22:30 |
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| crimea1854 |
Posted on 01/03/2009 08:18
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Administrator Posts: 906 Joined: 09/07/2007 |
Hi Andy Unfortunately the survival of pension record for ratings appears very patchy. However, since he would have been in receipt of a Greenwich Hospital Out-Pension there is a chance that a record does exist. For navy pensioners in Ireland at this time, the pension returns seem to have been made to the Army, and are in the WO22 series of records held at the National Archives. The other records that might be worth checking are those in PMG70 & PMG16, although these are only for commissioned and warrant officers. I have to admit that I’ve never tried tracing a man’s pension, and the above advice came from information contained in Bruno Pappalardo’s book Tracing your Naval Ancestors. While it appears that if he is in these records it will record his age, possibly an address, and a date of death, it will not have any information as to where he was born. I did notice from the Internet that Skibbereen has a Heritage Centre that, for a fee, will undertake a search of baptism and marriage records. The problem you are likely to have is John Driscoll is not a particularly uncommon name, certainly not in that area! Regards Martin |
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| theoretician |
Posted on 02/03/2009 18:58
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New Member Posts: 8 Joined: 27/03/2008 |
Thanks yet again Martin. From what you say it sounds like pension records would give me only what I already know. I looked at the Skibbereen heritage centre and their records of baptisms only go back to 1814 so just too late for John Driscoll. Perhaps what I have now is as far back as I can go at this point - I am still very happy with this. Andy |
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| Majick |
Posted on 21/08/2009 11:20
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New Member Posts: 2 Joined: 21/08/2009 |
Hi, I am interested in tracing Driscoll/O'Driscoll coastguard relatives and have found a reasonable amount of information from the Naval records etc. However there is a website for the clan itself where a big DNA project is underway to try and make sense of the many different lines of Driscoll/O'Driscoll. It is part of the ancestry.com community and "Driscoll of Cork" through google will find it for you. I also have a John Driscoll born 1863 but as yet I can't find if he went to sea etc. However my grandfather Michael did and he also went on to become the chief coastguard of Courtmacsherry, Co Cork in 1915. I have been to the Skibbereen heritage centre and they were very helpful. There is a clan gathering of the O'Driscoll community each year in Baltimore on the last full weekend in June. Hope you may make it some year. Good luck with your searches. |
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